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Title
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Oral History Interview with Amy Arrowsmith
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Description
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Amy Arrowsmith of Chattanooga, Tennessee was interviewed by Teddy Arrowsmith, Sewanee student, on February 17, 2024 via telephone. While their conversation was primarily on the Black Lives Matter Movement, other topics included: The Civil Rights Movement and the Integration of Public Schools in the Southern United States during the 1960s We hope that this conversation will assist scholars with a further understanding of race in the United States during the early twenty-first century. Please click on the link to see the full interview.
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Transcript
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Teddy Arrowsmith (00:00):
Hello, this is Teddy Arrosmith from Sewanee, the University of the South. It's Saturday, February 17th at 10:30 AM and I'm with,
Amy Arrowsmith (00:10):
My name is Amy Arrosmith and I'm from Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Teddy Arrowsmith (00:14):
Thank you for being here. My first question for you is, where are you originally from?
Amy Arrowsmith (00:20):
I grew up in Decatur, Alabama.
Teddy Arrowsmith (00:22):
And growing up in a small town in Alabama. How did you see racial relations?
Amy Arrowsmith (00:32):
Well, it's something I really didn't think about too much as a small child, but I attended a public middle and high school where I had a little bit more exposure, and so I began to think about those types of issues more when I was a teenager.
Teddy Arrowsmith (00:54):
Okay. Where do you think you found community as a child? It's a broader question.
Amy Arrowsmith (01:08):
I found community with my friends at school. My parents are family friends and our extended family and also I would say at church.
Teddy Arrowsmith (01:31):
Okay. And if you did much traveling as a young person, when you traveled to other places, what cultural differences did you see between Decatur, Alabama and the other places you would go?
Amy Arrowsmith (01:46):
Honestly, as a small child, we just traveled to the beach, so I didn't really have a ton of exposure in travel during traveling as a small child,
Teddy Arrowsmith (02:06):
Have you experienced international cultures in your life at all?
Amy Arrowsmith (02:14):
When I have traveled as an adult, I have had limited exposure, not in a deep way in the way as far as I've never lived in another country for an extended period of time, and I did not study abroad, so I didn't have deep exposure.
Teddy Arrowsmith (02:36):
So for the most part, you've been in the American South pretty much all of your life?
Amy Arrowsmith (02:44):
Correct.
Teddy Arrowsmith (02:46):
And how do you think just from that perspective that you have of the American south from the 1970s until now, what are the main changes you think you've seen just amongst the culture? It doesn't have to be racial relationships, just the culture.
Amy Arrowsmith (03:06):
It's just a little more relaxed and a little bit more accepting and a little bit more, especially with the internet, it's just kind of like, well, there's just greater exposure to people with differences. So I think generally people are more accepting.
Teddy Arrowsmith (03:29):
And that's a good segue into plan to talk a lot about social media because throughout the Black Lives Matter movement, I think social media was such an important aspect of it all. What is your experience with social media? I know that you're probably not on it at all, but can you talk a little bit about your experience?
Amy Arrowsmith (03:52):
Yeah. I've never had a social media. It is not something that I've been a huge fan of just because it really came to be popular during the time when I had children developing, coming along at home. And so to me, I worried about the more damaging effects, especially for girls that social media that comes along with social media, mainly the pictures on Instagram and this sort of propping up this look of perfection and these expectations that girls, you are sort of being falsely kind of. I just feel like I didn't like the way that kids were getting to know each other. It seemed like to me, they were getting to know each other from these pictures that were not reality. They were all made to look a certain way to impress people and get a bunch of followers. And I just didn't like how overall, I just thought it was doing more damage than good. And so I never really wanted to be part of that, and I'd never wanted my children to neccesarily be a part of that.
Teddy Arrowsmith (05:43):
Okay, so if you are off of social media, which you seem to have been for basically your whole life, how do you receive the news?
Amy Arrowsmith (05:57):
I read the newspaper online. I read a couple of different newspapers online, and I sometimes will have the mainstream news on tv.
Teddy Arrowsmith (06:21):
I think that would be the answer for the majority of the people in your generation. And for my generation, it would almost be a hundred percent that we get our news from social media. And how do you think generationally, that fact plays a part in when news is coming out like this Israel & Hamas or the Black Lives Matter movement or various things, how do you think generationally there's a difference?
Amy Arrowsmith (06:53):
Well, I think there's a huge difference, I don't know how the kids are getting it from social media, but it seems like it could be very much tailored. It seems like to me, social media, the stuff that you're receiving is stuff that's tailor made for stuff that they know you, so they kind of know your tendencies. And so they're going to feed you information that may not be the truth, but that they are going to think you. And then it kind as somebody my age, the fear is that the young people aren't getting sort of unbiased just actual facts that are happening in the world. Everything is slanted with an angle to make you all think one thing because they already kind of think you lean that way. So it seems like it's contributing to more extremism in the world and not as much just like, okay, here's what's happening. Nobody can believe the war and Gaza or whatever. Either you believe the facts are what the mainstream ultra conservative media is telling you, or you believe that that's crazy and that that's all lies and that you only listen to what's being fed to you by the other side.
Teddy Arrowsmith (08:21):
That makes sense. And so when something such as George Floyd, the George Floyd incident occurs, there's your generation gets your news from the tv, and you have an understanding of newspaper, our generation, and then there's an older generation older than yours that it's just such a different time of news breaking, I think, than it used to be. So how would someone like your parents, how did they take in the news of George Floyd?
Amy Arrowsmith (09:06):
Well, it's interesting because a lot of the people, my parents age are actually sucked into this extreme. A ton of 'em are either watching Fox News or CNBC, and they're kind of like, it's not social media, but I mean, there are a ton of old people who are so into that Fox News, they can't pull themselves away from it. So again, it's not just social media, it's just kind of the way the whole 24/7 news. It's a business, it's like an industry, and they're just feeding people stuff that they think are going to, they're feeding people things that are going to excite people and get all worked up. So they'll listen to their shows more and they'll listen to their programs more. And so when George Floyd came along, I guess most of the people, older generation, older than I am are getting that from the television.
Teddy Arrowsmith (10:08):
So you think almost all the news today and most of the people getting their news are getting fed these extremist point of views? There's nothing neutral?
Amy Arrowsmith (10:22):
No. I think there's some things that are semi neutral. No, I mean, they're the Fox, the Fox News, and there's the CNBC, but there's some general kind of mainstream stuff too.
Teddy Arrowsmith (10:39):
So what was your community's reaction to the Black Lives Matter movement? It happened in a strange time during Covid where community is sort of a weird thing to ask about because communities were being altered all over the place and your communities were being altered. But generally, what were the people around you? What were their reactions to the Black Lives Matter movement?
Amy Arrowsmith (11:07):
Well, I think when George Floyd happened, everyone was pretty appalled by that scene. And back then it wasn't as... it was sort of all the things that came later that became so divisive. I think when that happened to George Floyd, everyone was pretty sickened by that scene that was recorded and played over and over again. So I think I remember, because that's when all so many institutions and organizations started looking inward and, okay, what do we need to be doing to do a better job? And then there was that Instagram campaign where there was that day to remember George Floyd, and it was like the blackout day. And I remember that well, because I'm involved kind of do a lot of volunteer work at a local independent school. And that school decided to post something on social media and it didn't go over well. It went over kind of flat with black alumni. And so there was kind of a fallout after that. So I do remember all that really well. But everyone, I mean in general, everyone was sympathetic to what happened to George Floyd. I mean, back then nobody was saying crazy stuff. It was like, that's terrible. What's the world? I mean, we need to examine what's going on.
Teddy Arrowsmith (13:08):
And I think it was such a weird time in the world myself being a teenager and very into the generation of social media and talking about that blackout, whatever it was, blackout Wednesday. And it was such a weird time because it was almost like if you didn't make your Instagram profile picture a black square, then you're not making a difference in the world and you're not doing what you need to be. And I think just the reactions were so, it was just such a strange time.
Amy Arrowsmith (13:48):
Honestly, it was very strange. And I mean, I learned a lots just because of this work that I'm talking about, that I'm doing at this school. And I, looking back on it, they gave into pressure to be part of that social media, but looking back on it would not. We learned from that.
Teddy Arrowsmith (14:12):
Think that's an argument that's kind of, or that's a point that's so relevant in today's day and age because it almost, going back to that blackout Wednesday thing, it's almost like there's no way to have to sit back and take in the information and think about it and think about the people on both sides. It's almost like you have to make some sort of statement, which I think that's different than when you grew up now.
Amy Arrowsmith (14:47):
Yes. But what I'm saying is I think it's coming back around where I think having to do all that over again, I would've recommend make no statement, don't black out your square. Don't make a statement about anything unless it is completely relevant to the mission of your organization. And you could say, oh, well, there are black people who attend or who work for this organization or whatever. So you have to, no, I mean, I think you get off track when you feel pressure. It's very reactionary. But I'm like, I think we have learned, I have learned that those type of to respond to something or to react to something because you feel this pressure that's brought on by social media, I think that's no good.
Teddy Arrowsmith (15:48):
And I
Amy Arrowsmith (15:48):
Don't feel like we have to respond to that. I don't feel like Memorial Hospital where dad works should have to respond to the war in Israel and to what's going on there. I don't feel like Harvard should have to respond to everything like that. They need to be educating people to go out into the world and make the world better. And somebody needs to be educating your age, how to bring people together and not how to make statements that are just going to divide people more and make people react just further the divide. Somebody needs to be teaching you all how to bring everybody together.
Teddy Arrowsmith (16:35):
And I think the George Floyd incident was, I remember thinking of it at the time as the straw on the camel's back sort of after the Ferguson, Missouri stuff happened earlier in my life. And then there were the Colin Kaepernick kind of protests happened and things were heating up. And then this incident happened and it kind of opened eyes, I think, and made pretty much everybody realize that there's a serious issue here and something like that cannot happen and can't continue to happen. But I think the era that it happened in made it so weird to where there was, you had to have a strong viewpoint. People would say All lives matter, or people would say, people would say that those police officers need, I don't know. But it was both ways where, and it was everything you said you had to be careful about, which I think is something that I was trying to get at earlier about you didn't really grow up in that time where it was a time where you almost had to have a viewpoint, but almost every viewpoint you had would be criticized, I felt like.
Amy Arrowsmith (17:53):
Right. And that is a big thing when I was growing up and when you all were little before the phones and before the social media, people could make mistakes and it wasn't filmed. And you could say things and you could learn from your mistakes and people could help you and teach you. And it wasn't like you were filmed saying something dumb, and then you're canceled and you lost your job and your future is, there's that, I mean, that's another side of it, but feeling like you have to always have an opinion on every little thing. I never felt like that. I never felt like I had to make a statement on anything growing up
Teddy Arrowsmith (18:49):
And looking at the Black Lives Matter movement from sort of a bird's eye view and comparing it to other movements that have happened, the MLK and the Civil Rights Movement was a little bit before you were born, but I'm sure you still have a grasp on the history of it. What are the pros and cons? Because there two movements happened in very different ways, very different ways, trying to accomplish similar things. And how would you compare the two and the way that they unfolded?
Amy Arrowsmith (19:31):
Well, I mean, there's some similarities because there were plenty of people around where I live who were opposed to civil rights movement and the integration of schools. And I mean, that's when all these other schools became these small little Christian schools popped up. They were pretty much a direct result of kids being bused in the public schools being integrated. And so a lot of those Christian schools popped up as a result of the fifties and sixties. So there was a lot of, was a lot of backlash as there was after George Floyd and that whole defund the police thing, which I didn't even ever think was the Black Lives. Maybe it was a small part of the Black Lives Movement, but most people just thought, okay, the police used to be some reforms. Most people in the mainstream just like, okay, something's going on and there needs to either be better training or better something. But I was never for defunding the police and shutting down.
(20:54):
But I guess that's another thing. What we're talking about with social media is the extremes. Extremes have this platform now and they can just be so loud and vocal. And the very definition of them is they're small numbers on either end of the spectrum. And most people, by definition are somewhere in the middle. Most people are mainstream, and we all kind of want the same thing. But now it's like the people on either extreme have these platforms where they can be so loud and obnoxious and then tell all these untruths to gain numbers and influence people with kind of crazy stuff on either end. And so I guess that happened. There was backlash to the progress.
Teddy Arrowsmith (22:00):
And I think something that came out of that aspect of it was this cancel culture sort of movement. And we're still in a time, and we have been almost, I think since the George Floyd was sort of, in my opinion, not the hype, but not the birth either, but the start of this cancel culture movement and to where you can't really have, it's super difficult to sit down and have a conversation with somebody about this. Even this interview here in a super casual setting, you almost feel like you have to be careful about what you say, even though you shouldn't
(22:43):
When we're just trying to have a conversation. Because I think the goal of the Black Lives Matter movement should be that people are having conversations with people on the other side trying to understand where they're coming from. And I think that's what MLK was trying to do, and I think it's what the Black Lives Matter was trying to do, but just because of the time we were in, it took such a crazy turn to where people were actually almost against the black, were actively against the Black Lives Matter movement. A surprising amount of people were. And I just think,
Amy Arrowsmith (23:26):
Right, because
Teddy Arrowsmith (23:27):
You got it, go ahead.
Amy Arrowsmith (23:30):
Because people were being told that movement, they were putting fear into people for no reason and say, oh, that the whole defund the police and all of that, that wasn't even really true for the most part
Teddy Arrowsmith (23:53):
Because people on the side that were not opposed to the Black Lives Movement, but sort of skeptical of the whole thing. There was a large amount of people who were, and they would only focus on say, the riots and people breaking into stores, which shouldn't have been seen, in my opinion, as an aspect of the Black Lives Matter movement. I think that should have been seen as people in a crazy time doing crazy things.
Amy Arrowsmith (24:23):
Right.
Teddy Arrowsmith (24:25):
But if you're somebody watching certain news sources, they're going to tell you that is a direct is the Black Lives Matter movement is breaking into stores, which is not the case in my opinion.
Amy Arrowsmith (24:39):
Yes, I think you've got it. Exactly. And after that, the organization that I'm involved with in Chattanooga, once that Instagram post was made, and there were people associated with that organization who were offended by that. It was kind of like they thought the school was saying All lives matter kind of thing, and they're good people on both sides, blah, blah, blah. And there was kind of an outcry. And so that forced us into, not forced us, but as a result, we had these town hall meetings with people who've been associated for years. And all it was was exactly what you're saying. It was conversations and people wanted to be heard. This is my experience, this was my experience, and it wasn't very good. And the people in charge need to hear this so you can try to make the organization better.
Teddy Arrowsmith (25:47):
So moving back to earlier, we were talking about the generational things. So if we just talk about three generations, my generation, your generation and your parents' generation, can you talk about who was most affected and how they were affected?
Amy Arrowsmith (26:07):
From the George Floyd?
Teddy Arrowsmith (26:08):
Yes. Or just from the Black Lives Matter movement in general.
Amy Arrowsmith (26:16):
I think the older, the grandparent generation was not that affected. I think really it's your generation because you all are still formulating. I mean, you're in the time, the prime of learning and being open to new ideas and being educated and you're all in school, which tends to be kind of like the scene where all these things are being discussed. And so I definitely think your generation was the most affected by it.
Teddy Arrowsmith (26:56):
And I think it was also weird because we were in school, but we weren't in school because of Covid. And that just made it an even stranger time and heightened and exaggerated this social media. I think their negatives, but the impacts that social media had were exaggerated, I think because everyone was remote when it happened.
Amy Arrowsmith (27:28):
You know what you really could have used, it's like in person conversation. You could have used those people in a classroom setting to talk you all through some things and just have time. Everything's better in person, but you could have used some real guidance at your age other than your parents. You need people who are your mentors, your teachers and your friends and all that.
Teddy Arrowsmith (28:01):
And talking more about Covid, I think Covid definitely had an impact in terms of the fact that everyone was home and everyone was, and that whole aspect of it. But also I think just the aspect of the news side and the political side and how both of those things were happening simultaneously and both felt like the biggest thing in the world at the time they were. But it was, I think. Can you just talk a little bit about how Covid, not in the sense of everyone being home, but the sense of news and politics, how that affected the Black Lives Matter movement?
Amy Arrowsmith (28:43):
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think a lot of it is processing these huge events and isolation is not the healthiest way to process something like a movement, which it kind of was. And when you're home and can't, like I said, you don't have the guidance from people and love and respect outside of your parents. That's not the way it's supposed to be. Right.
Teddy Arrowsmith (29:16):
And that almost even makes that tunnel vision sort of aspect that we were talking about earlier, even more so. Yes, because you're only getting your news from your parents if you're in lockdown at the time. It's like your family and social media are the only people you're talking to.
Amy Arrowsmith (29:37):
That's right. That's right. And then in social, the whole thing is they're really only that feed that algorithm or whatever it is that they feed you material that they already know you believe in and you agree with. I know that there's a way to better say that, but there's something about, that's one of the worst things in my opinion about social media, is because it feeds these, it just turns people into extremists because they're only fed things that they already agree with, only fed ideas that they already agree
Teddy Arrowsmith (30:21):
So looking forward, what do you think the future in the near future and the distant future of this sort of Black Lives Matter movement and what it's done, what do you think the future is?
Amy Arrowsmith (30:38):
Well, honestly, Teddy, I don't hear a ton about the Black Lives Matter movement itself. As far as police reform, I don't hear so much specifically about police. And one thing is I don't think there's been another high profile killing like that in a while. So you tend to only hear a ton about stuff when there's a flare up, when there's an Incident.
(31:07):
Teddy Arrowsmith
(31:07):
So maybe there's been some success in that regard, but also I think some failure because the goal of the Black Lives Matter movement I think, was to have people talk and promote unity. And it almost seems like that aspect of it has died down, but the crazy aspect of it all has also sort of died down.
(31:31):
Yeah, I think so. It's not such a fevers pitch. The whole movement doesn't have quite as maybe overall there's been some good reforms that have taken place. But no, I don't think we're any better as far as being tolerant of differences and having conversations. I think people just don't want to have the conversation. You just kind of avoid it at all costs. Political conversations and conversations that are hard, nobody wants to have them.
Teddy Arrowsmith (32:14):
Right. I think that's a good spot to wrap it up on.
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Identifier
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She/Her
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based near
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Flinstone, GA
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birthday
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March 11, 1969
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gender
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Female
